When you read the Gospels, do you struggle to understand what Jesus really meant when he taught counter-cultural life lessons and penetrating parables? So did bestselling author Andrew Klavan until he had a profound encounter with Jesus and discovered a fresh understanding of the Gospels by reading the words of Jesus through the life and work of writers such as William Wordsworth, John Keats, Samuel Taylor Coleridge, and Mary Shelley.
Bible Gateway interviewed Andrew Klavan (@andrewklavan) about his book, The Truth and Beauty: How the Lives and Works of England’s Greatest Poets Point the Way to a Deeper Understanding of the Words of Jesus (Zondervan, 2022).
You write that you became a Christian as an adult. What drew you to Jesus and how is becoming a Christian as an adult different than as a child?
Andrew Klavan: As I detail in my memoir The Great Good Thing (Thomas Nelson, 2016), I grew up Jewish and the idea of taking Jesus seriously as the Word made flesh as in John 1:14 never occurred to me. But as an aspiring writer who wanted to educate himself in Western literature, I began to realize that the poet William Blake was right when he said the Bible is the “Great Code of Art,” the center of all Western thought and creation. So at 15, I read the Gospel According to St. Luke, simply as literary research. It took 35 years of thought and reflection before I understood I couldn’t make sense of the world as I understood it without taking the Gospels as truth rather than fiction. It was a long journey but it has at least one advantage over being a “cradle Christian.” I’ve explored all the really good arguments for non-belief and know why I rejected them.
[Read the Bible Gateway Blog post, Jesus: The Word Made Flesh]
You recount how, when telling your son of your failing attempt to grasp Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount, your son suggested that “maybe…you’re trying to understand a philosophy instead of trying to get to know a man.” Why do you write that this was “the single smartest thing anyone had ever said” to you?
Andrew Klavan: Because on the instant, I saw it was exactly how Jesus wanted to be approached—not as a system of ideas, but as a human being. When you get to know someone, you start to see through his eyes somewhat, you start to understand why he says the things he says, even when those things are off-beat and mysterious. Love your enemies (Matthew 5:44)? Look at a woman lustfully and you’ve committed adultery (5:28)? Do not resist an evil person (5:39)? We’re so used to quoting these things with solemn piety that we don’t stop and think: Wait, what? Do I believe that? Do I even understand it? Every time I’ve come closer to what Jesus meant, I’ve grown more joyful in my life. I realized my son’s words gave me a way to get even closer.
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What do you mean by your statement in the book, “Art is the way we speak the meaning of our lives”?
Andrew Klavan: There is simply no way directly to communicate the inner experience of being human. I can describe a tree. But I can’t describe joy, sorrow, faith, love—my inner world—without using metaphors and stories, pictures and music. Ask an athlete: “How’d you feel about winning the big game?” He’ll respond, “Man, it was like waking up on Christmas morning when I was a kid.” Essentially, he’ll tell a story to communicate his emotion to you. Hamlet, the Sistine Chapel, Beethoven’s 9th—these are all just more complex versions of that process, meant to take us even deeper into the human experience. Even God, when he wanted to communicate his glory, created the heavens (Psalm 19:1).
Who are the poets you include in the book and why did you choose them?
Andrew Klavan: I picked the ones who helped me reread the Gospels in a new and more personal way. The book centers on William Wordsworth, Samuel Coleridge, and John Keats, though there’s also a chapter on Mary Shelley, who wrote Frankenstein. Mostly I focus on their raucous, brilliant, sometimes tragic and sometimes hilarious lives so you can see the way their thought and poetry developed. These are great stories from the most amazing moment in English literature when six of the greatest poets who ever lived were all on the same island at the same time.
Briefly, how do their lives and writings point the way to a deeper understanding of Jesus’ message?
Andrew Klavan: The Romantic era was astoundingly similar to ours. Many of the old ways of thinking were under assault. New science was challenging old religious beliefs. Radicals and conservatives were fighting to dominate politics. Marriage and gender roles were being questioned intensely. These poets were tasked with creating a new world on the ruins of the old. It was as if they were starting from scratch. In their wild lives and their spectacularly beautiful poetry, you can see them facing all the questions we face; questions that had once been answered by Jesus before Western faith began to weaken. And slowly—sometimes accidentally—they found their way back to Jesus’s answer, but in a new era with new words. So, to use a metaphor, it’s as if they disassembled a piece of machinery then put it back together so you can see how it works. They re-built the bridge between the inner man and the spirit, so you can read their poetry and think, “Ah, that’s what Jesus was talking about! That’s what he meant! Now I get it.”
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What is the meaning of your book’s title?
Andrew Klavan: It’s from Keats’ “Ode on A Grecian Urn.” In the poem, a work of art (the urn, in this case), speaks to us and says, “Beauty is truth and truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know.” Today, people tell us there’s no such thing as moral truth; the inner world is purely subjective and has no reality; if you feel like you’re a woman, magically you become a woman; if I can convince you wrong is right, lo, and behold, wrong becomes right. But no. Human beings are actually God-made devices designed to connect with their creator and with spiritual and moral truth. That’s why he came to us as a human being, as one of us, to demonstrate to us how it’s done—in love, sometimes in suffering and sacrifice, in living by the spirit instead of the flesh. The word “beauty” in the poem doesn’t mean prettiness—as in, “oh, I like pink flowers, and you like yellow ones.” Beauty is the deep sensation you have when you’ve connected with the hidden, spiritual reality of the world, when you become a branch of the great vine (John 15:4).
What is a favorite Bible passage of yours and why?
Andrew Klavan: It changes from time to time. I love John 14:27, I give you peace—but not as the world gives it. That reminds me to recenter myself on Christ in times of turmoil. I love Psalm 46:10, Be still—and know that I am God. Possibly the best piece of advice ever given! Great to remember when you’re trying to control everything yourself. And the branch and vine verse cited above. The lives we create, the art we create, the love we create—it’s nothing if it doesn’t flow from the source.
What are your thoughts about Bible Gateway and the Bible Gateway App and Bible Audio App?
Andrew Klavan: Is this a trick question? I use it every day. I used it while answering these questions. I have no memory for quotes or verse numbers, so it’s my constant companion. I used it constantly while researching The Truth and Beauty. Part of that process was teaching myself Greek and then translating the Gospels myself so I could feel really close to them. I checked my translations by going through the different renderings on Bible Gateway. It was a huge help.
Is there anything else you’d like to say?
Andrew Klavan: Well, this. A Bible quote that doesn’t come up half enough is (checking my Bible Gateway) John 15:11, “I have told you this so that my joy will be in you and your joy may be complete.” I don’t think “joy” there means happiness. In life sometimes you’re happy, sometimes you’re blue and so on. I think “joy” is what John Keats called “gusto,” a complete immersion in life—life in abundance (John 10:10). This is what Jesus is trying to demonstrate to us, and this is what the Romantic poets were trying to retrieve from a civilization that had taken itself apart. Now our civilization is taking itself apart again and people—especially young people—are becoming more and more miserable. The Truth and Beauty is my attempt to shine a light on the road back to joy.
The Truth and Beauty is published by HarperCollins Christian Publishing, Inc., the parent company of Bible Gateway.
Bio: Andrew Klavan is an award-winning writer, screenwriter, and media commentator. An internationally bestselling novelist and two-time Edgar Award-winner, Klavan is also a contributing editor to City Journal, the magazine of the Manhattan Institute, and the host of a popular podcast on DailyWire.com, The Andrew Klavan Show. His essays and op-eds on politics, religion, movies, and literature have appeared in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and elsewhere.
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The post Encountering Jesus Through the Works of English Poets: An Interview with Andrew Klavan appeared first on Bible Gateway Blog.
