Evidence for Jesus’ Veracity Without Using the Bible: An Interview with J. Warner Wallace

What would happen if a career homicide detective—who equated belief in Christianity to be equal with belief in the Easter Bunny—used the same investigative approach used to solve modern-day missing person murder cases to determine whether Jesus is who he said he was? Can the truth about Jesus be uncovered, even without a body and by merely gleaning evidence from history alone, without relying on the New Testament?

Bible Gateway interviewed former atheist J. Warner Wallace (@jwarnerwallace) about his book and video study, Person of Interest: Why Jesus Still Matters in a World that Rejects the Bible (Zondervan, 2021).

Describe your atheism in your early detective career.

J. Warner Wallace: I grew up in Southern California in the ’60s and ’70s, and never really knew anyone who was a Christian. I didn’t have any Christian friends and I was never invited to church. Even as a police officer, I only encountered a few Christians, and the Christians I met, if I’m honest with you, did not impress me.

I knew a few Christian police officers, but when I asked them to defend what they believed, they struggled to provide an adequate evidential defense. They seemed to believe in Jesus blindly, which seemed odd to me given that they were such evidentialists in their professional careers.

The other Christians I met were people I took to jail. More than one arrestee told me he or she was a Christ follower. As a result, I was uninterested in Christianity because I believed it was either undefendable or unlivable. In either case I wasn’t interested.

My wife was more interested than I was, however, and encouraged me to go to church with her. Neither of us were Christians, but she thought church attendance might have value in raising our kids. I was willing to go as an atheist because I loved my wife. On our first visit to an evangelical church, the pastor described Jesus as the smartest person who ever lived. That provoked me to purchase a Bible to see if that claim was true.

[Read the Bible Gateway Blog post, God’s Crime Scene: An Interview with J. Warner Wallace]

What does a cold-case detective do?

J. Warner Wallace: Cold case detectives investigate unsolved murders. There’s no statute of limitations on murder, so if a case goes unsolved, it can be reopened many years later. I served as a homicide detective for several years and then began to specialize in unsolved murders. The skillset helped me to examine Christianity, because in both cases, I was trying to determine what happened in the distant past. I simply applied my skills as a cold case detective to the evidence for Christianity. This investigation unlocked the truth of the Gospels.

[Read the Bible Gateway Blog post, How the Bible’s Obscure “Coincidences” Demonstrate Its Reliability: An Interview with Lydia McGrew]

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What is unique about Person of Interest? And why did you write it that way?

J. Warner Wallace: Person of Interest traces my personal journey as I investigated the case for Christianity from a perspective of distrust and skepticism. I didn’t believe the Gospels were reliable, and I didn’t trust the New Testament. In Person of Interest, I examine the case for Christianity without referencing the New Testament in any way. I imagine a scenario in which all New Testament manuscripts have been destroyed. Without the New Testament, can a case be made for the historicity and deity of Jesus? I believe it can, and this was the approach I took as an atheist who was interested in that pastor’s claim about Jesus.

[Read the Bible Gateway Blog post, Thinking Like An Atheist: An Interview with Anthony DeStefano]

What is the “fuse and fallout” investigative strategy you describe in the book?

J. Warner Wallace: I’ve investigated several “no body murders” over the years. In one example described in the book, a husband killed his wife and then told authorities she ran away. The first investigators treated the case like it was a missing person case and did not take photographs or examine the house as if it was a crime scene. Years later when I reopened the case to investigate it as a possible murder, there wasn’t a single piece of physical evidence to demonstrate that the victim had been killed by her husband. In fact, there was no evidence from the crime scene and we didn’t even have the victim’s body. How could we demonstrate that the husband was responsible for this crime without any evidence from a crime scene?

We knew one thing for sure: if the husband killed his wife, something explosive took place on the day she disappeared. This explosion, like all detonations, was preceded by a long fuse that burned toward the detonation. After the bomb went off (so to speak), shrapnel likely cluttered the scene. When investigating and making a case like this to a jury, we simply show them the evidence from the fuse and the fallout to demonstrate what took place on the day of the crime.

In a similar way, the truth about Jesus can be discovered even without any evidence from a “crime scene.” Even if every New Testament document recording the life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus had been destroyed, we could still determine what happened at the crime scene simply from the fuse and fallout of history.

That’s the premise for Person of Interest. I investigate the fuse and fallout just like I do in every “no body murder.” We apply this investigative technique to the person of Jesus to discover if he is history’s most important Person of Interest.

[Read the Bible Gateway Blog post, The Case for Christ: An Interview with Lee Strobel]

What are some common objections to Christianity and how can they be answered?

J. Warner Wallace: As part of our investigation, we respond to several common objections to Christianity. Was Jesus a “copycat savior”? Have Christians historically been science deniers? We respond to these objections and many more as we examine the fuse and fallout of history to demonstrate that Jesus still matters, even in a world that rejects the evidence of the New Testament. History alone provides us with the answers to these objections.

[Read the Bible Gateway Blog post, Evidence That Demands A Verdict Redux: An Interview with Josh McDowell and Sean McDowell]

How do you position your book’s readers to be a jury to decide a verdict about Jesus by the end of your book?

J. Warner Wallace: Person of Interest is part graphic novel, part detective mystery, and part personal journey. Along the way we describe a homicide case in which Steven Hayes murdered his wife, Tammy, and disposed of her body. As we trace the fuse and fallout of this murder case, we simultaneously trace the fuse and fallout of Jesus. Along the way, we demonstrate that Jesus still matters even to those who would deny the truth about Christianity.

I was an atheist until I was 35 years old, yet all the aspects of culture that mattered most to me (literature, art, music, education, and science) were deeply impacted by Jesus, even though I had no idea this was the case. Person of Interest demonstrates the impact Jesus had on history and his impact on the most important aspects of our culture.

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Why did you finally abandon atheism?

J. Warner Wallace: The evidence for Jesus was simply too overwhelming to ignore. Jesus had more than an incredible impact on human history—the story of Jesus can be reconstructed from the most important aspects of human history. In Person of Interest, I demonstrate that every detail of the life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus can be reconstructed without reference to the New Testament. Instead, we reconstruct the entire story of Jesus simply from literature, art, music, education, science, and non-Christian religions. That’s the kind of impact Jesus had. He not only changed the world, he left his fingerprints on all of creation.

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What is a favorite Bible passage of yours and why?

J. Warner Wallace: I love the passages of Scripture that demonstrate the deity of Christ. Maybe that’s why I typically cite Philippians 2:5-11 as my favorite verse whenever I sign a book.

I love this verse because the deity and servant nature of Jesus are evident in one passage. Jesus submitted his life, even though he was God incarnate. That’s why Jesus had the kind of impact he had on history. In Person of Interest, I make the case that no human should have had the impact Jesus had on history. If God entered his creation, however, we would expect the kind of impact Jesus had. In essence, the fuse and fallout of history demonstrate the deity of Jesus.

What are your thoughts about Bible Gateway and the Bible Gateway App and Bible Audio App?

J. Warner Wallace: Bible Gateway is my go-to website when researching Scripture. I love the options the website and App provide. Bible Gateway resources allow me to investigate every verse of Scripture from several different translations. I use Bible Gateway resources regularly to make the case for Christianity.

Person of Interest is published by HarperCollins Christian Publishing, Inc., the parent company of Bible Gateway.

Bio: J. Warner Wallace is a Dateline-featured homicide detective, popular national speaker, and bestselling author. Relying on over two decades of investigative experience, Wallace provides the tools needed to investigate the claims of Christianity and make a convincing case for the truth of the Christian worldview.

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